iPad gaming, Rogue Touch, and future projects

[CommanderData]

I'm sure most of you saw or heard about the iPad announcement by Apple not too long ago. After reading everything about it and pondering a bit I think that a lot of games can benefit from the increased resolution of the iPad. Rather than simply playing Rogue Touch in their "pixel doubling" mode which magnifies iPhone apps to fill most of the screen, leaving you with an even more blocky version of the same game, I am thinking of adapting an iPad specific version.

This version would probably have a scrolling view with the inventory always available on one side of the screen, and more of the dungeon visible at once. The current version at 100% zoom you can only see about 3.5 spaces left and right, and 5.5 up and down around you. The iPad version, even with constantly visible inventory in landscape mode would still allow you to see roughly 17x19 spaces at 100%, and more if you zoom out a bit.

Once you have a screen this big it may not make sense to tap around the edges of the screen anymore, or even use a d-pad. This size might support directly touching where you want to go or what monster you want to attack (if I eliminate zooming, so the tiles remain big enough to touch). Maybe swipes to take off and "run" in a certain direction, and multi-finger gestures for shooting a ranged weapon. It's pretty much an open slate, pun intended

There's some issues I have with the way Rogue Touch is coded and optimized that will make for big headaches if/when I try to change it. It would be easier for me to take Rogue Touch apart and create a new version from the pieces I think, but would people buy Rogue iPad? I think the end results would be cool, but I also have to accept the fact that maybe not enough people would care to make it worthwhile.

On my new project, since coding is not that far in depth yet I can try to plan for the iPad as I program it.

So, some questions for all:
1) Anyone have thoughts about Roguelikes on the iPad? Possible control ideas are welcome!
2) Would you like an iPad "special edition" version of Rogue Touch that takes advantage of the new device?
3) Would you prefer that my next game(s) handle the iPad special edition and iPhone/iPod in the same version, so you only have to buy one copy of the game?
4) Would you be willing to pay a bit more for "universal" games like that? Or would you prefer to only buy one version or the other for somewhat less cost. Keep in mind a universal copy will be more work, and probably end up being larger in size if I need to include extra higher resolution iPad graphics inside the app. Storage space is an issue for some people

I'm definitely curious to see what you all think. I cannot ignore the iPad, so now is a good time to decide what to do about it!

[JonathanCR]

I believe that the iPad is a golden opportunity for games developers and that it's really important to be ready for it. I think that means not only starting work on iPad-specific games but also releasing new versions of existing games, modified for the iPad, where possible. In cases where this doesn't represent an enormous amount of re-working of a finished game it would be crazy not to. Even if it is merely a matter of increasing the screen size, so it takes advantage of the bigger screen and better resolution, and nothing else is changed, it would probably still be worth it in many cases.

I also think that the iPad seems like the perfect device for Roguelike games. Merely having that much more screen to play with is going to make a big difference. In my view, the ideal answer to all of the questions you pose about how to use that space is the same: let the player decide. Make it possible to devote the whole screen to the dungeon view, or to have it smaller to make way for an inventory window, stats window, D-Pad, special icons for common actions, etc., all of these or only some of these, as the player wishes. Make it possible to pinch in or out with the dungeon screen to have it at whatever magnification you want (you don't have to have super-detailed graphics for this - if the player wants it so zoomed-in that everything is blocky, let her!). As for controls, I think that tapping on the tile that you want to go towards (or the monster you want to attack) is the obvious method for a screen of that size, but again, let the player choose. On the iPod Touch I have found the D-Pad controls for Rogue Touch to be far preferable to the edge-of-the-screen method, although it seems that most people prefer the latter; it just shows that different people like different things. Give people the option to use whichever of the three control systems they want.

In my view, having a higher-priced "universal" version that is for both iTouch and iPad is not such a great idea. It is unfair to people who only have an iPod or iPhone that they should have to pay for a load of features that they can't use, and I can just imagine the irate (and misspelled) reviews that a "universal" app of this kind would get. The extra work involved in compressing both versions into a single app doesn't seem justified if the same effect can be done more simply by splitting them into distinct apps, one for each device. If I had an iPad, I think I would be willing to pay for an iPad-specific version of a game even if I already have it on the iTouch. If I weren't, I'd still have the option of playing the smaller version on the iPad if I wanted.

[swhatley]

CD,

I think the iPad would be great for a Rogue-like game. However, it will probably be better to concentrate on a iPhone/iPad of PUT. Maybe once you finish your secret project game, you can sue some of the code and programming experience to port RT to the iPad. Or if you want the experience with an app you know well, you can port RT first and apply that knowledge to PUT. Either way, the ultimate goal needs to be get PUT out for both the iPhone and iPad

Would I buy RT iPad? Only if it offer a variety of avatars. 4 or 8 of them? And, more special characters!

IMO, the biggest sellers for the iPad will be board games like Monopoly and Scrabble. Maybe come out with Rogue Monopoly which the more expensive squares are more powerful monsters instead. I think I will sign off now.

Enjoy life!
Steven

[mickeymammoth]

I would definitely buy an ipad version of rogue touch. Please make it so!

[CommanderData]

I think there's a silent majority waiting for Rogue Touch "special edition" to hit the iPad, have seen some high profile requests in my inbox too

In the meantime, has anybody purchased an iPad and played Rogue Touch in "Pixel Doubled" format (or regular/small size) on it? Any feedback or odd issues that I need to be aware of? I have not picked up and iPad yet, waiting for the 3G 64GB model hopefully at the end of the month. Until then, it's going to be tough to test anything. The simulator is not a good option, so I generally avoid it.

[mickeymammoth]

My husband has played some in pixel double mode, and the main issue is the controls seem a little inaccurate/hard to hit precisely.

[Podesta]

Hi

I've played it a little rogue touch on my iPad. (nice work by the way - easily the best rogue style game on the iphone) Haven't come across any issues. The controls seem to work ok. I tend to touch just around the player to move since the iPad is much larger and you don't want to have to touch the edges. Zooming out would work great if it was at full resolution.

I'm actually going through the same questions on magelore. The iPhone 4 will benefit from having the higher Rez art so a universal app starts to make sense... Another option might be to release 2 versions - one universal and a cheaper one for iPod / iPhone only... Having said that! I currently have no universal apps for my iPad. Seems everyone is releasing HD versions so they can charge more and get around the current 99c market that is the iPhone.

I'm thinking a free app with in-app purchases might be a good option also... If you can find a few things for people to buy for a buck.

For control mechanisms, I'm currently going for a combination of joy pad and touch targeting. I've been playing underworld a lot on the iPad and it has diablo style touch-to-move and it works ok but I find I'm missing the enemies a lot and moving to tiles I don't want to whenever I miss a ui icon by a fraction.

[CommanderData]

Hi

I've played it a little rogue touch on my iPad. (nice work by the way - easily the best rogue style game on the iphone) Haven't come across any issues. The controls seem to work ok. I tend to touch just around the player to move since the iPad is much larger and you don't want to have to touch the edges. Zooming out would work great if it was at full resolution.

I'm actually going through the same questions on magelore. The iPhone 4 will benefit from having the higher Rez art so a universal app starts to make sense... Another option might be to release 2 versions - one universal and a cheaper one for iPod / iPhone only... Having said that! I currently have no universal apps for my iPad. Seems everyone is releasing HD versions so they can charge more and get around the current 99c market that is the iPhone.

I'm thinking a free app with in-app purchases might be a good option also... If you can find a few things for people to buy for a buck.

For control mechanisms, I'm currently going for a combination of joy pad and touch targeting. I've been playing underworld a lot on the iPad and it has diablo style touch-to-move and it works ok but I find I'm missing the enemies a lot and moving to tiles I don't want to whenever I miss a ui icon by a fraction.

Hi Podesta! I am following your work on Magelore with great interest and anticipation. The old-school Ultima slant to it is wonderful. If you ever want an independent tester who can e-mail you crash logs and game save data, I'd be happy to help

Glad that you have enjoyed Rogue Touch. We seem to have followed similar paths, I see that Magelore is an idea you had at a young age on the Amiga, finally being brought to life. Rogue Touch is my own twist on Rogue as released for the Atari ST back in the 1980s... I'd actually played around with writing dungeon generators and whatnot back then, and shelved the whole idea as it became clear the ST (and Amiga) were sinking ships in the platform wars.

As for an iPad version of Rogue Touch- It's actually still on my radar. I never did end up picking up an iPad, deciding to wait and see how the first generation panned out. RT is a very creaky platform to build on, since it was my first "completed" game, and first iPhone release. A double curse! Sure it all works well enough, but expansion or modification is tough.

When I realize the amount of work necessary to bring RT into the future for iPad and iPhone 4, I think it actually makes sense to fork... Start a new universal app for Rogue Touch (advanced version) and maintain the existing one for older devices. Of course the "advanced" version would gain features that the old one never could- high resolution artwork, multiple playable resolutions, smoother animations, new control ideas, and so forth. Anyone happy enough with Rogue Touch (classic, current version) can continue to play it with no new purchase needed. People looking for more could pick up the new version and be pleasantly wowed with the changes I have in mind

[Podesta]

yeah, that sounds like a sensible plan to me. I've played RT a fair bit, though haven't managed to climb any of the leaderboards - it was my game of choice on the train at the moment. Used to be Sword of Fargoal, but RT has a lot more depth...

Just spent the last week restructuring my view, image and texture classes so I could support a universal app more seamlessly. Turns out my view class was a complete mess but seems to be in good shape now.
I'll probably chuck up a big blog tonight with details on how I'm handling the universal app issues so you can check there in a few hours.... magelore.blogspot.com for anyone interested

[kagee1130]

Hi, I am new to the board but have been playing Rogue touch on my iPhone for a while, and just recently got an iPad. I would be willing to pay more for the iPad version if that is what it takes. I have run into an issue with using the current version on my iPad. I have trouble with the screen randomly growing full-size and then small again. Tried to figure out what I am doing to trigger it but it seems to just happen. Thanks!