johndramey wrote:Hmm. Well I know I'm a new comer to the forum, and as such don't have a whole lot of credibility, but my 2 cents can't hurt. And as a guy who ran out to buy an iPod Touch because my buddy who has an iPhone told me that he bought some "Roguelike" for his phone and knew I was into the genre and would be interested I can at least comment.
johndramey wrote:If you want to make the game a little more accessible without totally ruining the spirit of a roguelike you could simply give the character a choice of difficulty. The difficulty levels could do something as complex as what Nighthawk said, or they could simply give the PC varying levels of starting equipment.
johndramey wrote:Also, and I know this one is a little unpopular with the roguelike crowd, you'll want a storyline. Most roguelike hardcore players are all about there not being a storyline, but that is the one thing that the general audience can't grasp so well. Most casual roguelike players want some basic form of a story. Sure Rogue, Nethack, IVAN, and Dungeon Crawl all have a "story" so to speak, but they are very barebones. You wouldn't have to make a crazy in depth story with some love and deception in it, but maybe break up the game in to multiple smaller dungeons with some over arching goal. Sort of like how Isle Of 8-Bit Treasures allows you to select from a map of dungeons to go crawling in, but have some sort of goal for each dungeon.
johndramey wrote:The perk of allowing the player to select dungeons is you could start the player off with simpler dungeons that aren't too difficult and slowly (or not so slowly?) build the PC up to a full roguelike dungeon. This will largely mitigate the problems that people have with your #s 3,4, and 5 since you could just introduce those things in whenever you felt like. The problem with this approach is that you are really increasing your work load. Even if you were to not theme each dungeon separately you are going to need to work a lot harder than just having a randomly generated map (not that this is easy). You'll need to create some sort of hub (even if it's just a picture of a town with buttons to press to go to certain areas), have some sort of story line linking the dungeons, and balance everything out (which could be a huge headache).
johndramey wrote:To be honest I feel that #s 1,6, and 8 are pretty important to the roguelike genre. You could sidestep #1 by using some system ala Shinren the Wanderer where the PC had a common storage space that was static through all of his/her characters, but the individual characters should be expendable. Part of the fun of this genre, for me at least, is coming upon a corpse of one of my older characters. Removing permadeath from the game also takes away a little bit of that sense of tenseness that takes over those of us that can get down to the deeper levels of the dungeon.
johndramey wrote:I don't really know if this post will help you at all. I'm pretty sure that even if it's helpful in someway it's a little too late to do much of anything, but hey it can't hurt, right? I bought Rogue Touch a long, long time ago and I didn't think of looking for a Rogue Touch website till yesterday when I finally decided it was time to look up the equipment and see if I could get some tips for breaking through the lower levels.
With all that said, Rogue Touch is a perfect game. I love it more than anything, and it's had a spot on my trusty touch since I bought it. It's carried me through many a long day at work, long subway ride, or boring meeting. You're a god among men CommanderData.
CommanderData wrote:John, I'm back! You're new here, but I think your ideas are valid and very interesting. Also funny that you purchased an iPod Touch based on the availability of Roguelikes! Hopefully my next game will be interesting enough to bring even more people into the roguelike fold
CommanderData wrote:I agree with everyone who says different difficulty levels could help (Nighthawk and JonathanCR discussed this further in the "fun" thread). In fact, I think a fine grain of difficulty control and make things REALLY interesting. Sort of like the setup that "Forgotten Realms: Dungeon Hack" has. It was discussed not too long ago in an @Play article here: http://www.gamesetwatch.com/2009/11/col ... dungeo.php (take a look at the "dungeon generation" section!)
CommanderData wrote:Storylines can be used to attach yourself more to the protagonist, and further enhance the desire to complete the quest. The story cannot be very text heavy because it'd be very repetitive after each death and new attempt, even if it's "skippable". I'm thinking something along the lines of Shiren where there are pieces of story that can advance after each death. Since I'm planning a multi-game arc here, the storyline actually has some importance, and I hope it'll be well received.
CommanderData wrote:The way this will likely play out: New players can play a "tutorial dungeon" complete with a teacher/guide that tells you how things work in the world. The main quest line will have four distinct areas with differing tilesets and themes. There will also be a post-game hardcore dungeon as well for those who simply can't get enough. Similarities to Shiren show through here too
Make no mistake, this is all going to be PAINFUL to balance correctly since the monsters, magic, and world rules are all new and invented by me. We don't have the benefit of years of small refinements that many roguelikes have seen. From my background in the genre I have some confidence it will turn out great, and I am sure people here can help in the final phases of testing.
CommanderData wrote:This is where we're headed. The individual "instance" of your character is expendable. I'm not in love with the "skill tree" concept because I'm afraid it makes you more emotionally invested in that "instance" rather than in the items you're carrying. There will be provisions to reacquire some of your character's equipment after an untimely death, other than that you'll end up as a level one character back at the start of the game!
CommanderData wrote:Your post has been helpful, as have the posts of every other dedicated Rogue Touch player that still visits here. We're still at a point in time where things can be nudged in new directions easily. And posts like these and the ones in my "fun" thread are going to help make the game even better than I'd originally envisioned.
And thank you once more for the great feedback on RT, it makes me very happy to know that it has become a favorite of many people. I'll try hard to exceed the greatness in my upcoming projects!
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