gaerisl wrote:First off, Thank you for being such a receptive developer. It really is very nice to know that feedback is actually being read!
Congrats on launch, and for producing a very good port of rogue.
Basically, I am a veteran player of the TI-89 calculator version of rogue (I think it's called CalcRogue), a fairly developed game. So, I guess you can say I'm a bit spoiled. In any case, there are a load of good features on that version of the TI-89 rogue that I feel made the game very, very good. While I understand it may seem like I'm asking you to make a copy of another game and ditch your own originality (or make an un-faithful-to-original version of rogue), i am not, please do not take it that way. Instead, I am trying to give insight into some features that would make the game much, much more enjoyable for everyone.
in any case, lets get down to the brunt of it...
1) light radius/fog of war/vision range-
-whatever you call it, The TI-89 version of the game had a critical difference: it breaks down like this:
-areas where you have not seen (black, you already have this feature)
-areas where you can see (lit up, you have this feature)
-areas where you have seen but cannot see right now (gray-ed out, or shaded).
Your engine already sort-of distinguishes between out-of-range-vision and in-range-vision (as seen in the dark rooms). that's fine. the annoyance and lack of features comes in to play in areas that are not intentionally dark, where you have already visited. (for example, those hallways). it appears as if you can can see everything (as all the squares are lit up) but you really don't (as you can not see a monster two or three squares away from you, but it appears lit, like you CAN see what's on the square).
from this, you could also do light-vision radius rings/modifications.
Also, another nice (but real pain to program) would be vision lines-of-sight, that allow you to see diagonal around edges and through doors (imagine standing diagonal to a door, now make yourself into a bishop chess piece. what you can see beyond the door is everything along the line of movement as a bishop chess piece... limited by your vision range, though). And what i meant by "around edges" is more for corners, where you can see along the straight diagonal around a wall, but the areas "blocked" by the wall, you cannot see. (for example, you walk parallel to the side of a house (about 2 feet away from the wall)... and as you clear the corner, more view is _gradually_ unfolded for you to see). (kind of like "slicing the pie" if you play paintball or airsoft.)
2)Hidden shops. (of random size, with random items. probably with extremely expensive prices.)
(Use that gold to buy stuff, hog useless items to sell)
2.b) the ability to go UP stairs
(probably just another type of tile, right?) If there are shops, there is a need to return to them =D... (in case you don't find more further down..)
3)These are all equipment related-
3a) Damage ranges listed (ex: bow: 1-5 damage, dagger: 1-4 damage, longsword:1-6 damage. spear: 2-8 damage)
3b) Identification on equip (I've only played for about an two hours- correct me if i am wrong- only cursed equipment identifies itself upon equip. everything else- ring, weapons, etc doesn't get identified upon wearing.)
Identification on equip makes it more fun for two reasons: you don't need one scroll of identify for every weapon/armor/ring. Second, there's a greed/risk element to it. get greedy and identify a new item, or avoid, for risk of being cursed? it'll get more people to get trapped in cursed equipment >D
3c) randomized equipment stat/quality (broken bow:1-2 damage. bow:2-5 damage, superior bow:3-6 damage, etc)
it'll also make people wait for the perfect weapon to apply those enchant scrolls =D
3d) more Identification scrolls (well, appearance rate is fine right now if identification on equipping feature is included).
4) a manual on game mechanics
What is this mean? "A +1,+0 Mace" ? what is +1 and +0 describing? +min damage and +max damage? what is the damage range? i have no clue?
5) room geometry
no offense, but i've been halfway down to level 26, and room geometries are all the same: is there a way to fix the generating algorithm so that there are tighter packed and smaller boxes as rooms? maybe even pillar areas and stuff? (or like, the TI89 version had changing landscape as you got further down- around lvl 20, it changed to a randomized city landscape. that was a real rush first time seeing it.)
6) local and global high scores. It's fun to compete against friends (separate iphones), but not on the global top 10 list. the global top 10 list will probably look like "1. no-life-person.... 2. no life person.... 3. no life person... 4.no life person.......... 9. lucky person.. 10)no life person". so it's impossible for most people to get into the top 10 (once this game becomes really popular)... so, the local high scores (probably done through manual score transmission/merging) will be more fun for groups of friends.
in any case, sorry for the long post. I hope you'll give these suggestions a good thought. please feel free email me if you feel like discussing any of these. talking about this stuff makes me wanna bust out programming =P. lol.
thanks for listening,
-Gaerisl
Gaerisl,
Now that I have a bit more time to talk I want to say thank you very much for the long and detailed post. I was not familiar with CalcRogue so I did a bit of reading up on it. Based on what I learned it's definitely a more advanced rogue-like, and not a direct port. It does look quite impressive, obviously being used to playing a game of that nature (or Nethack or Angband or ADOM) would make you feel as though there's something missing in a more streamlined game based on the original bad boy, Rogue.
I'll try to address your thoughts with a few of my own in each case:
1) Light Radius / Fog / Field of View -
You do bring up an interesting point. We based our visibility code on how Rogue behaved in the PC DOS and Atari ST versions (of which I spent entirely too much time playing
). As far as I can tell it behaves identically, despite being hand coded by me. Not to say there is no room for improvement though! I agree that hallways or dark rooms that were previously visited could benefit from a small touch to differentiate them. It also may not be obvious to new players when in a hallway you can only see *one* square in front and behind you, which is why you'll frequently be surprised in hallways. Unless you happen to drink a potion of Clairvoyance that is (then the little buggers show up on your mini-map at all times for the rest of that level). I was thinking that maybe the "grid dot" that is centered on every tile (for distance checking, use it to know how many turns you have before that beast is on top of you
) should be invisible on hallway tiles that are not in your light radius. An added touch is they could be a slightly darker color too, to bring the effect of lighting the path better.The more advanced discussion of field of view I'll save for our future Rogue-like project, which will likely be designed to support such things from the beginning
2) Rogue had no shops of course, and some users definitely don't want to spoil that authentic Rogue experience. Others are desperate to see it added! Being pulled in a couple of directions makes it probable that there will be a classic and advanced game choice. Classic will probably not be altered much beyond the version 1.1 release gameplay unless some better controls or options are devised. 1.2 would then offer a toggle for advanced mode. A semi-random shop will almost certainly make it into version 1.2.
2b) Going up stairs can only be accomplished in Rogue when you have retrieved the Amulet of Yendor. It would be easy to change but it would horribly break with Rogue tradition and I would likely receive death threats! When someone cares enough to threaten your life, you have to listen
There will be a risk that you'll miss a secret door or fall through a pit trap and miss the shop, but that will just keep the challenge level at a reasonable level.3) For those who like stats and knowing the capabilities of your items, we'll be adding a FAQ sometime soon that will eventually cover even the nerdiest details of the game
I'd prefer to keep them out of the game itself as they were not available in the original, plus the details screen may get crowded and we still have a few plans for it.3b) If you don't have a scroll of identify handy the only way to determine what an item is capable of is to use it of course. Even then, it may not have an obvious effect. In Rogue Touch, any usage that has an obvious effect, such as zapping a troll and seeing it burst into flames, causes that item to be identified. That applies to armor, scrolls, potions, and wands/staves. Rings are intentionally unclear, because most of the time when you put one on its effects are not immediately known. Weapons used to be in that same boat, but in version 1.1 when you attack and successfully hit a monster the weapon you are wielding is identified! The thought is, you used it so you know it's effect on the monster!
3c) These type of features will definitely go into a more advanced rogue-like someday!
3d) See 3b- this should lower the need for identify scrolls a bit, but they'll still be a valuable item to have!
4) The +X, +Y terminology is carried over from the original and probably dates to Dungeons & Dragons prior to that. A Mace +1, +2 means that you get a +1 chance to hit, and a +2 to any damage caused when you hit. Like Dungeons & Dragons, your chance to hit is a random roll of 1-20, and you need to meet or exceed a certain value. That value is based on the monster's armor rating, your level, strength, and modifiers on your weapon (the +1 in my example).
5) Rogue's room geometry is based on a 3x3 grid laid out in an 80x24 area (those values correspond to an old text terminal view obviously, since that's where Rogue came from). The mechanisms used to generate the dungeon are patterned with extreme care to match the original, including room sizes, twisty passages, and mazes in the deeper levels. A more advanced world map like the one you've seen in CalcRogue would definitely be seen in a game like Angband (which we're considering a remake of).
6) Global high scores is rapidly approaching the most requested feature status. My biggest problem is that's beyond my current realm of expertise, and I need to do a bunch of research before I can implement them!
We definitely want a detailed global ranking board, probably with stats on the game played beyond just your "score" or gold quantity- things like your rank, deepest dungeon floor, number of moves made in the game, monsters killed. That way you could rank in one or more categories! Once we have figured out *how* to do this, we'll ask for everyone's suggestions on what stats should be tracked!
