My thoughts on 1.1

Discussion about Rogue Touch for the iPhone and iPod Touch
Post Reply
kennfusion
Posts: 41
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2009 6:11 pm

My thoughts on 1.1

Post by kennfusion »

Think I should probably bring this to the forum here instead of toucharcades.

So have had some solid time playing 1.1 now and am really enjoying it.

I have read that some people think the double tap setting needs to be adjusted, but after a few days I have to say it is easy to get used to. The only problem I have with it is in mazes or around cross roads, but even those I have learned to deal with quickly.

Being able to listen to my music while playing is just awesome. It was great on the subway today.

On throwing things, I still think there just needs to be a 3rd icon on the bottom there that designates a primary thrown item, or the last thrown item. Having to equip arrows or shuriken or darts in order to use that feature takes away the advantage of throwing, you don't lose a turn. Maybe just make it so that any stacked items, when clicked on in inventory, you have an option to set as default thrown item. That way when you hit the icon, it just brings up the targeting.

Some things seem to have changed a lot since the update though, that could possibly just be the RNG messing with my head, but I don't think so.

First, mazes seem to have increased and vaults seem to have decreased. As in I have seen at least one maze areas every game since 1.1 and not a single vault.
Strike that. I just found two vaults on two consecutive floors, the one on level 10 was heavy leprechaun, which means I was nice and broke when I found one on floor 11 that had like 3 Trolls (serious ouch).

Second, seeding of items in a game seems to be suddenly very focused. Like in some games I find massive amounts of rings and little else. Other games might be super heavy in armor. Almost every game seems to have some focus though. And some scroll, potion, staff types seem to gang up on you. For instance I just finished a game where by floor 16 I had found almost 10 scrolls of magic mapping. The previous game it was potions of speed. Another game it was potions of restore strength. I know it could be RNG, but this seems to happen every game now. And in these games other things seem very sparse. So a game like the one I just had where I had like 8 rings and had only found 3 scrolls of identify just was annoying. I know you tweaked the itemization code, just wondering if something you did is creating this.

I am having fun with the new items. I just had back to back games with a Blessed Long Sword and a Mace of Shocking.
I am guessing Blessed is extra damage to undead and limited detect evil.
Shocking appears to be chance on hit to do additional electrical damage. This does not work on all creatures it appears, as a fly trap never seemed to take the extra damage.

Thanks for the update guys and look forward to the next one.

The guy who came out with the previous Rogue game I understand is playtesting Hack now. Races and Classes...yay! How far are you on your version? :lol:
Last edited by kennfusion on Wed Mar 04, 2009 10:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
CommanderData
Site Admin
Posts: 609
Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2009 3:17 pm
Twitter: http://twitter.com/ChronoSoft
Contact:

Re: My thoughts on 1.1

Post by CommanderData »

kennfusion, I just wanted to let you know that I read your well thought out post here- very glad that you're enjoying Rogue Touch and the 1.1 update was a positive experience! I'll respond a bit more in depth later... great things are afoot... hopefully everyone will be pleased! :D
DaveH
Posts: 11
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2009 4:54 pm

Re: My thoughts on 1.1

Post by DaveH »

I just wanted to add that I the RNG weirdness you describe happened to me even in 1.0.

I also think the new items are fun! Also it is great to have weapons be identified after first use. Is there any way to carry that to rings too?

I totally agree it needs to be easier to throw items not equipped. A 'repeat last action' button would be something to consider...

-dave
kennfusion
Posts: 41
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2009 6:11 pm

Re: My thoughts on 1.1

Post by kennfusion »

BTW - I just had a Studded Leather Armor identify as +0, but when I wore it, it suddenly was -2. Any other reports of anything like this?
User avatar
CommanderData
Site Admin
Posts: 609
Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2009 3:17 pm
Twitter: http://twitter.com/ChronoSoft
Contact:

Re: My thoughts on 1.1

Post by CommanderData »

kennfusion wrote:BTW - I just had a Studded Leather Armor identify as +0, but when I wore it, it suddenly was -2. Any other reports of anything like this?

To address this question first- I have not received any reports like that, but if you can recall *anything* else about that time period and game that would be helpful! I have had some experiences with my 1.3 test version putting on the wrong armor in a hurry- because they are all grouped together staring in 1.2... :D Not saying that's what happened to you, but it's something to watch for those speed-players out there!

kennfusion wrote:Think I should probably bring this to the forum here instead of toucharcades.

So have had some solid time playing 1.1 now and am really enjoying it.

I have read that some people think the double tap setting needs to be adjusted, but after a few days I have to say it is easy to get used to. The only problem I have with it is in mazes or around cross roads, but even those I have learned to deal with quickly.

Being able to listen to my music while playing is just awesome. It was great on the subway today.

On throwing things, I still think there just needs to be a 3rd icon on the bottom there that designates a primary thrown item, or the last thrown item. Having to equip arrows or shuriken or darts in order to use that feature takes away the advantage of throwing, you don't lose a turn. Maybe just make it so that any stacked items, when clicked on in inventory, you have an option to set as default thrown item. That way when you hit the icon, it just brings up the targeting.

Some things seem to have changed a lot since the update though, that could possibly just be the RNG messing with my head, but I don't think so.

First, mazes seem to have increased and vaults seem to have decreased. As in I have seen at least one maze areas every game since 1.1 and not a single vault.
Strike that. I just found two vaults on two consecutive floors, the one on level 10 was heavy leprechaun, which means I was nice and broke when I found one on floor 11 that had like 3 Trolls (serious ouch).

Second, seeding of items in a game seems to be suddenly very focused. Like in some games I find massive amounts of rings and little else. Other games might be super heavy in armor. Almost every game seems to have some focus though. And some scroll, potion, staff types seem to gang up on you. For instance I just finished a game where by floor 16 I had found almost 10 scrolls of magic mapping. The previous game it was potions of speed. Another game it was potions of restore strength. I know it could be RNG, but this seems to happen every game now. And in these games other things seem very sparse. So a game like the one I just had where I had like 8 rings and had only found 3 scrolls of identify just was annoying. I know you tweaked the itemization code, just wondering if something you did is creating this.

I am having fun with the new items. I just had back to back games with a Blessed Long Sword and a Mace of Shocking.
I am guessing Blessed is extra damage to undead and limited detect evil.
Shocking appears to be chance on hit to do additional electrical damage. This does not work on all creatures it appears, as a fly trap never seemed to take the extra damage.

Thanks for the update guys and look forward to the next one.

The guy who came out with the previous Rogue game I understand is playtesting Hack now. Races and Classes...yay! How far are you on your version? :lol:
Glad to hear the double-tap is not too tough to get used to. It has already been modified for the better in 1.2 of course, you will not accidentally trigger a run anymore! Previously it would relate any two taps on the screen within about 1/2 or 3/4 of a second as a run request- waaaay to easy to trigger. Now you'll need to double tap much more purposefully, within about 2/10ths of a second. This works much better especially for scouring along a wall looking for secret doors- now I can tap, tap, search a bit, tap, tap, search a bit (the famous method for searching to cut down on overlapping and wasted time)!

You'll also stop directly in front of doors finally, and at hallway intersections and maze branches. I know mazes were particularly tough to navigate with 1.1 fast-mode, they should be a lot easier in 1.2

On throwing things- I agree that a ranged weapon-slot and touch point would make sense, but not in "classic" mode. Rogue originally did force you to change weapons though (and waste that turn in the process) :D If we do modify that scheme it'll only be in the "advanced" game mode. Classic will behave as it does now, which is about as close to the original as we can make it without reading the original code line by line! I do like the idea you have on implementation of the ranged weapon default item, it'll probably work a lot like that when we're done!


A lot of the rest of the discussion on Mazes, Party/Treasure Rooms, and the odd clumping of items definitely revolves around the random number generator. For techie types, we started out simply with "random()" but that was decidedly un-random feeling, even when seeding it. We moved on to "arc4random()" and never looked back. It seemed our troubles were over... but we too have been finding odd cases where things don't appear very random.

Examples:
1) Finding far more than usual of a single item (such as your magic mapping scrolls). This is really confounding, as you need to make it through TWO random rolls in a row with the same values regularly- one to determine item type (a scroll) and another to determine the subtype (magic mapping)!
2) Distinct lack of mazes or party rooms, and then a game that seems to have them everywhere, even though the odds are stacked against it.
3) Those damn freezing weapons! Superweapons weren't meant to rain from the sky, but they do! The odds say you should find normal, cursed, or minor enchantments over 90% of the time... I don't understand it, our RNG seems to have a love affair with the numbers 96 and 97!!!

I think we're going to look for some sort of custom random number solution to help fix this.

You are correct that different weapons will affect/be useless against certain monsters!


I did see that Gandreas is beta testing Nethack... unfortunately he'll be way ahead of us again. It's a lot easier for him as he just takes the existing source, existing tilesets, and adds a bit of glue code. Honestly I don't know how he can release Nethack in the App Store unless he posts the source code on his website (due to the Nethack General Public License, anyone using their code to make a derivative work must supply that new code to the public).

Rogue is bound by the MIT License if I'm not mistaken, which allows for proprietary distribution without the source code. This is why he could take the Rogue Darwin OSX code and put an interface on it. Anyway, enough on licensing... I'm sure he will comply properly with Nethack or someone will call him out on it.

Rogue Touch took a totally different route! We used the *idea* of Rogue, but not the source code. This takes a lot longer to do because we're re-inventing the wheel so to speak, but it allows us to create the experience without the "cruft". Since RT is coded from scratch it lets us do things that would be impossible in the Gandreas Rogue. :lol:

It'd probably be easier for us at this point to spin off our current engine and do our own advanced Rogue-like... but then we don't receive the pre-made fanbase of Nethack or Angband or ADOM... :ugeek:
Post Reply