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Any other Deep Divers out there?

Discussion about Rogue Touch for the iPhone and iPod Touch

Any other Deep Divers out there?

Postby Tommy » Tue Jul 21, 2009 4:11 pm

I was fortunate enough to have my last character standing next to a stack of freezing daggers, and am now at a point where I am nearly invincible. If I die for any reason other than suicide, it will almost definitely be because I get sloppy and let myself faint in front of a dragon or some such. If I was to quit right now, I would only be 7th overall, but I believe it's just a matter of time before I get to first.

Somehow, I doubt I'm the only one in this situation. Are there any other "Bug Chasers" out there just biding their time until the next release?

-Tommy
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Re: Any other Deep Divers out there?

Postby NightOwl40 » Tue Jul 21, 2009 4:44 pm

:lol: Probably lots of them ;) Not me, though........I have yet to survive getting that blasted amulet out of the dungeon :oops: The freezing, shocking dagger combo I got on my last run was funny, though..........too bad the griffon killed me while I was laughing :lol:
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Re: Any other Deep Divers out there?

Postby Tommy » Tue Jul 21, 2009 6:40 pm

Freezing shocking dagger combo would be truly awesome. Right now I'm carrying a flaming mace for vision range and fighting by throwing the daggers. The only thing that can actually hit me are dragons, and they miss a lot at the moment, but shocking them would make for way shorter fights...

-Tommy
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Re: Any other Deep Divers out there?

Postby yogibayer » Tue Jul 21, 2009 9:26 pm

I'm out here. Been down to level 61 so far. I can't imagine how my character could possibly die without something very strange happening. I have 270 HP and an AC of -36. I'm up to 168,000 gold, but trying to get to 500k before exiting with the ammy. I got lucky early on and found a Spartan Cuirass and a flaming Katana. It took me until my third trip back to level 26 before I found my first protect armor scroll (thank goodness I had a maintain armor ring). About the same time I found my first protect armor scroll I found some daggers of lightning that vorpalized to slay dragon. Since then nothing has come close to killing me and I just dive and come back up to collect more items. I'm currently carrying 14 scare monster scrolls and 15 teleportation scrolls for emergencies, which only come at the very low levels (currently 60 and 61). Funny discovery is that polymorph is very dangerous at low dungeon levels. Low level monsters like griffins are nearly impossible to hit, have very high HP and hit me nearly every swing (I'm thinking bug with their AC).
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Re: Any other Deep Divers out there?

Postby Tommy » Wed Jul 22, 2009 7:23 pm

I'm at level 63 currently, and not feeling quite so invincible anymore. I accidentally threw my flaming mace at a Jabberwocky in a hallway, and it didn't drop after I killed it, so I no longer have the lighting necessary to get them before they get me. My stack of daggers once 50+ is now down to a mere 15, so I don't get the benefit of throwing them anymore. This has also caused my HP to drop to 195 due to some sneaky vamps getting the first hit in.

I've also noticed the polymorph issue. It seems like whatever I morph a dragon into, it's nigh impossible to hit. I've taken to using my once large stockpile of confusion potions on the dragons to make them hit me just enough less that I can survive it, but I'm down to my last 5.

Thinking about heading back up for awhile.

P.S. Don't retrieve the amulet with that much money. The all time leaderboard only recognizes deaths.
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Re: Any other Deep Divers out there?

Postby Jim2wheels » Thu Jul 23, 2009 1:23 pm

@Tommy

Have always played the deep diving game with a normal character (hence why i have quite a few scores lower down on the leaderboard). It used to be a good competition when the game was first released, but numerous ways to cheat have surfaced since then so the scoreboard has over inflated. Essential tools for playing out (to the unofficial rule book) big runs are as follows:

Freezing weapons of any kind, especially two handed sword of freezing: Obvious benefits of slow and freezing on creatures.

Blessed weapons, preferably thrown weapons: removes the vampires hp sucking abilities

Spartan Cuirass: because you get two digs for the price of one :D

Im currently on a good run with a freezing two hander and Spartan armour, but im not finding many armour scrolls (my AC is 6 and im on level 55) or weapon scrolls (two hander is only on +9+4 - which is really dicking me off!), my biggest run which sits in 5th was done with just the freezing two hander but with maxed out strength and much more luck on the armour scrolls. You will eventually die because the creatures just keep getting stronger, and inless you level dance they will soon overtake your stats, equipment and corner you eventually. Infact if you look at the post about most annoying creatures you can see a pic of the state i was in prior to dieing a level later!

@Yogibayer

No offence, but the level dancing/hopping which you do is what i was talking about above. It over inflates your score,equipment and coinage which then produces a high scores table based on time rather than skill and a healthy dose of luck. This is not to say you are cheating or playing the game wrong - by all means you can play however you like as is your right too - but i like to think there is more personal achievement playing the game as it was meant to played.

Using step count and kills as a guide to who is the unofficial leader i.e just kept going in one direction - Mike L wins hands down :ugeek:
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Re: Any other Deep Divers out there?

Postby Mister Fluff » Mon Oct 26, 2009 6:40 pm

No offence, but the level dancing/hopping which you do is what i was talking about above. It over inflates your score,equipment and coinage which then produces a high scores table based on time rather than skill and a healthy dose of luck. This is not to say you are cheating or playing the game wrong - by all means you can play however you like as is your right too - but i like to think there is more personal achievement playing the game as it was meant to played.


Unless Mr. Data programs the game so 'level dancing' is not possible, you can't say someone is playing the game wrong. That would be akin to saying that because somebody plays chess defensively, or uses their knights in open positions rather than closed, they are not really playing the game. "Unless someone is aggressive in their play or saves their bishops for open positions on the board" is malarkey. People play the game differently, and as long as it is still within the rules IT IS JUST AS VALID as any other style of play.

If someone is exploiting a bug, that may be different and will likely be fixed. If someone is playing differently than you, it is still just as valid for determining the leader. It may also be why CD displays different factors on the leaderboards?
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Re: Any other Deep Divers out there?

Postby Jim2wheels » Tue Oct 27, 2009 7:07 am

Mister Fluff wrote:

If someone is exploiting a bug, that may be different and will likely be fixed. If someone is playing differently than you, it is still just as valid for determining the leader. It may also be why CD displays different factors on the leaderboards?


And that is exactly what level dancing is seen as, if you delve into the forum a bit deeper you will read many posts where CD has specified level dancing/hp building (using Wraths) as exploitation of the game. In fact it has been mentioned on his more recent post on the sticky thread. I totally agree with what you say, and if you read my post again you can see i do not suggest for one moment that anyone is cheating or playing unfairly. I simply suggested that in my personal opinion i find a greater sense of achievement by not using the various loopholes in the game that were never intended when the game was made.
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Re: Any other Deep Divers out there?

Postby Mister Fluff » Tue Oct 27, 2009 12:49 pm

I simply suggested that in my personal opinion i find a greater sense of achievement by not using the various loopholes in the game that were never intended when the game was made.


But that is where I don't understand why people like doing that. In a game that is created randomly, the only skill seems to be finding the 'loopholes' or playing many hours. If I find a Spartan Cuirass, a Blessed weapon, and an armor protection scroll on level 1, how can I say that I am more skilled than someone who gets to level 26 with +1 leather and a nice mace? All that shows is that I was lucky. If everybody got the same items on the same levels, we could attribute it to achieving something. In a game that is random and turn-based, skill seems to be more about who will invest the time to keep playing over and over, or about who will look for unintended ways to beef up your character.
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Re: Any other Deep Divers out there?

Postby CommanderData » Wed Oct 28, 2009 10:36 am

I certainly don't think that level dancing and the HP-wraith issue are "cheating" as it were, just clever usage of things that I coded that ended up with unforseen consequences! Of course these things dramatically change the playing field, so that you have a division between those that do use these exploits and the majority who do not. I would classify these things as bugs at this point, and plan on removing them. However, I'd like to do something that lets people continue to enjoy the deep diving experience if they desire- probably a greater chance of super-weapons and equipment with bigger bonus numbers as you go past floor 26, to make the rewards more in line with the increased risks you have with the loopholes closed.

The separate leaderboard sections were designed to help a variety of players see themselves in ranking. Whether you can get the amulet or not, how many monsters you can kill, how much gold you can get, how quick you can win, how deep can you go? It encourages different play styles and gives extra life to a game that already has sucked up years of my own time :ugeek:

It may be true that once you reach a certain level of mastery of the game, luck is one the the biggest factors in how one game is different than the next. That's pretty much due to the more simplistic nature of Rogue vs say NetHack or Angband.

My goal for the upcoming rogue-like project will be to make sure there are more interactions and ways to use a given item, and more bits of strategy possible for gameplay. This should increase the replayability of the new game to something beyond Rogue Touch, which would make it eerily addictive at that point! :mrgreen:

Another interesting point is Mister Fluff's statement on " If everybody got the same items on the same levels, we could attribute it to achieving something"... While the new game design in progress will be completely randomized, I am planning a sort of "seed" based design, where I'll be able to issue a challenge in which everyone CAN play the same levels, and see who does best! Participation in that type of thing would be completely optional, but it will add an extra layer of competition for those that are interested!
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